Match info
| Date | League | Winner | Loser | Score | Type | |||||
| 2004-06-29 | STA Silver | SoW | Soldiers of War | 125.52 +5.95 |
awe | Awesome | 95.51 -3.47 |
40-10 10-30 | Wolteg_r Wolteg_r |
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Writeup:
SoW over awe
GG was fun match good luck to you guys.
Comments
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FaZe
207.32.58.195 |
Title Win? more like a title HOLD , if you get my drift
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FaZe
207.32.58.195 |
also nice to see one of the league admins setting such a great example for other clans
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Bomsie
24.205.245.56 |
Lame match, bg.
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
I'm going to go ahead and have to agree that the level of sportsmanship displayed by SoW was far below what I expected from a clan with an "admin" on it. or should I say a probationary admin. gfg your own team even made fun of you in hltv saying you were hiding like girls with the ball. Lame strat of the week award is granted to you, and your crown if it lasts.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
i'd have to agree, it was a very very very very disgraceful move, however we got awarded the win on a map that we did not prepare for, so i'm sorry if you disagree with our decision to do what we had to do for a win =(
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
Winning at all costs is not something I'd be proud of.. Especially since the only reason you were in the position to hold the ball is because your server was horrible for our team while your whole team pinged 50-60 the whole time. Our team was getting huge lag spikes and pinging over 300.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
then why did you not mention it bio? we could have happily traded servers and went to yours?
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
I personally have nothing to do with the ping of others, but I am always very open to helping make lag instances very fair, so next time if there is one, just mention it and I'm sure we'll be very happy to go to yours or vice versa.
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
I didn't play did I? So I wasn't there, I just got to hear about it and watch it on HLTV. I can't very well join the match and complain about it mid-way through, like you guys had a guy just randomly join, then join our team.. that was nice too.
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
I haven't had time for computer games lately. I'm busy getting ready to move. So I just show up at match time to run ringer free and in the event we're short a person. I'm just trying to make sure everything goes smoothly and control any situations that can't be dealt with by my Co-Leaders.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
I am just gonna drop this issue and move on, yes it was low down and dirty i totally agree, but would you rather get kicked outta your clan rather than do what they are telling you to do? i personally think you and i both know that this was low down and sneaky move on our part, however it is something a lot of clans i'm sure have done in the past on push maps that they do not prepare for
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
I haven't had time for computer games lately. I'm busy getting ready to move. So I just show up at match time to run ringer free and in the event we're short a person. I'm just trying to make sure everything goes smoothly and control any situations that can't be dealt with by my Co-Leaders.
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
stupid refresh button made me post again.. grr
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FaZe
207.32.58.195 |
well ox, if a clan will kick you for chosing not to be a lame shit, then its probably not a very worthwhile clan to be in , in the first place
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
most clans do that faze...a lot of them like i said, lets just drop this issue and be friends or something cuz i don't want to make enemies i just do what my team tells me to do
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Speaking from an outside perspective, I find this style of play to indeed be very lame. At the same time, I would also think that it violates the STA 5v5 rule:
Actions that significantly and unfairly change the structure and/or goals of a map or the engine of the game are considered illegal for STA match play, as is the abuse of map exploits.
because last time I checked, the structure and goal of push was not to take the ball from the center, head back to your base, and then constantly have the other 4 teammates spamming while not even making an attempt at capturing the flag. That is called turtling.
As far as I know, the max D rules and the afformentioned rule was put into place to prevent clans from turtling, but I guess that was not what occured in this case.
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Negley
68.83.22.244 |
There is no max D rule in "push" style maps.
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I would also like to add how amazing close this strat comes to breaking the following rules:
E. push
- It is considered a map exploit to intentionally take the ball into your respawn and hold it there for any length of time. If it happens by accident, leave immediately out the same door you entered.
Granted the enemy team did not take the ball into the respawn, it is still almost the same concept.
I have always viewed STA 5v5 as a league that has wanted to get contain certain aspects of the game that many find lame. For instance, STA 5v5 is very strict on pot shotting and Yard D in comparison to other leagues. That is why I find it so suprising that this match was not overturned. In doing so, the admins are basicly giving free reign for all clans to find whatever lame strat they can for a map (examples: this and spamming ff on mulch_trench) even if that strat does not follow the goal and structure of the map (which is an sta rule that I am sure was created specifically to prevent things like this from happening). I really hope that STA takes a second look at this, because really... how many people would have fun playing a clan utilizing this strat.
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btw Negley, I always assumed the max D rule did not apply to push because in push, people are allowed to shoot whomever they want to. However, I hope that the reason the max D rule does not apply is because the admins wanted to allow turtling on push style maps.
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last sentence = However, I hope that the reason the max D rule does not apply is not because the admins wanted to allow turtling on push style maps.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
ummm i'm not sure who is posting as blank, but what would you like the rule to say exactly?? just outta curiousity
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
ummm i'm not sure who is posting as blank, but what would you like the rule to say exactly?? just outta curiousity
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
haha, you hit refresh too and posted twice! sucka
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beyond
12.216.173.24 |
I do not wish to change what the rule says, I am only saying that it should be enforced.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
yah saw that just now lol
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
that rule actually is only for push, and it was not taken a place that would make you not able to get the ball was it? =\
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
if i were to per say, take the ball, go to your flag room, and stay there becuz you did not see me
would that be illegal??
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
this is only my interpretation, and as an admin i am not able to necessarily take care of anything dealing with this match, however if i were doing it, i agree it is totally low down and mean, but does not violate the intent of the map, ball control
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
The intent of the map is not ball control.. it's to take the ball and cap it. You don't score points from holding it.. if you did.. then yes I would agree holding the ball is the point of the map. But it's not.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
goal, to not let the other team score...so if you control the ball, reduces the ability of the other team
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
just all depends on how you look at it, i think another team did it on pushed in one other league, so i don't know necessarily how this will be interpretted by other admins other than myself
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You are right in saying that the rule can be read in many ways, however, think of it this way; you are basicly saying a clan can use any strat on any map as long as it doesn't blantently (key word) violate any rules. Meaning if a clan were to find a vauge or unthought of way to exploit (yes this was an exploit, I'm sure the map maker did not intend for this to happen) a certain niche of a map, they would get away with it. You also might as well never let push in the rotation again, because if this strat becomes widespread, you will be seeing countless matches in which a team decides to hold the ball after taking a lead. The strat itself is so hard to defeat that I can see many teams letting out a cap in the first few minutes, and then spending the rest of the first round and all of next round trying to break through a nearly inpenitrable defense.
Now, to argue the more subjective part, whether or not this violated the intent of the map. You seem to think that two simple words "ball control" can sum up the entire purpose of the map. However, while ball control is a large part of the map, it the type of it also must be taken into consideration. So to break it down more, would you say the intent of the map was to get ahead by one point and then turtle in your own base for the rest of the time? That is certainly a form of ball control, but is it the kind that was intended by the map maker?
As for the match being overturned, I could personally care less, but if it isn't, then I would call for a change to the wording of the following rule:
"Actions that significantly and unfairly change the structure and/or goals of a map or the engine of the game are considered illegal for STA match play, as is the abuse of map exploits. "
to:
"Actions that significantly and unfairly change the structure and/or goals of a map or the engine of the game are fine as long as it doesn't violate any other rules. Therefore, go ahead and abuse whatever little map exploits you can find map exploits."
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Obviously I don't proofread as there are a few minor errors in my post, but I think I am done with this discussion anyways.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
i think if we played 4 people in front of you to the cap point, it wouldn't have made much a difference i don't believe
but thats just my personal opinion, i'm finished with this cuz i am gettin tired and have practice, peace
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FaZe
207.32.58.195 |
i think that if you would have taken the ball out of your flagroom you would have gotten fucking destroyed, like you were for the first 5 minutes, which is obviously why you didnt what was i thinking
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FaZe
207.32.58.195 |
im all up for a rematch w/o the lameness, on the same map , on a different map , doesnt matter to me , to see who outplays who...i can't believe STA awards wins for this type of a match
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FaZe
207.32.58.195 |
im all up for a rematch w/o the lameness, on the same map , on a different map , doesnt matter to me , to see who outplays who...i can't believe STA awards wins for this type of a match
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FaZe
207.32.58.195 |
oops refresh
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
laffity laff
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
refreshes suck, perhaps on a bye week or something lets have a scrim or something sounds like a great idea, we play junky people in scrims, so we'll see what we can toss together and throw at ya =P GL in teh future sirs
don't refresh!
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Bomsie
24.205.245.56 |
I would like to congratulate oX on being the dumbest admin ever. Hope you guys get owned in gold and disband.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
so a difference of opinion is being dumb? =\ i'm sorry bud, wish you thought differently of me ='(
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Bomsie
24.205.245.56 |
You're excusing your lame shitness on the fact that other clans do it. By this logic, I should be able to go and stab someone because other people do that too.
You also said you did this because you didn't prepare. Guess what! That means you didn't even deserve to win. We practiced, and prepared, and expected a good, close game. What did we get? An asshole team who decides they'll be lame shits and hold the ball once they get a one cap lead. Topping things off was that *AN STA 5V5 ADMIN WAS ON THE TEAM AND HOLDING THE BALL TOO*. Wow, way to play a good game.
I don't even care about lame shit in most matches, like pot shotting, spamming the spawn, caltropping the flag, or other lame shit. Because we can still score. But Mr. Admin and his clan decides that because they didn't practice, they have a right to be lame shits and prevent our team from scoring at all. I'm sure that if you could have gone in the respawn with the ball on wolteg_r, you would have.
Like I said, I hope you guys have fun being in a higher division. You can not practice and be lame shits there too.
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I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I just wanted to say one thing. Here are a couple quotes from oX
"yes it was low down and dirty i totally agree"
"I'd have to agree, it was a very very very very disgraceful move"
So you are basicly saying that low down, dirty, and disgraceful tactics should be allowed in STA 5v5?
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jimbobillybob
12.33.164.12 |
While I have not played a lot of 5v5 I know on 9v9 maps such as run, hiding with the flag to keep the opponent from being able to score is a rules violation.
I think it is pretty ridiculous for a player, who just happens to be and admin, to know that the tactic of choice is "lame" etc to go ahead and choose to play that way.
#1 I think you have just disqualified yourself from working as an admin for the STA, you obviuosly do not have any integrity (of course perhaps you live in close proximity to some of your teamates and they are willing to give you the reach around on a regular basis).
#2 Just cuz another clan might do it does not make it right.
#3 Ox, dude, get a clue man. "i think another team did it on pushed in one other league" If you are going to write shit like that be specific, also, not like it will matter much to STA admins what the TFL or IGL might have done.
#4 Its just bad sportsmanship.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
i have no call over what my team does, or tells me to do, i listen to them and do as i am told, so sorry =(
and admin and clan are totally seperate ty
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Its easy to put out a disclaimer that being an admin and being in a clan are different. You have further illustrated my point that you lack integrity.
During my first stint with H2K (their first time around) I learned that the leader lunatik aka Adverse had shortened the amount of time remaining in rd2 of a match to insure victory. He owned his behavior, apologized to the opponent, posted a loss for H2k and apologized to his teamates. I choose to leave because I didnt want to be a part of that type of team.
You on the other hand seem more than willing to do whatever your clan desires you to do, even if you disagree with it. I am sure if they brought you to a field of llamas and told you to go stuff one you would, becuase it seems that being a member of your clan is more important than your personal integrity.
I hope I have made my point in a fashion that is more understandable for you.
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jimbob aka senip aka wonhungtolow
63.231.169.192 |
: )
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-SoW-TheoNE
68.209.184.241 |
for one thing we did not hold ball in respwnc uz the ball would just go back to middle of map and nother thing is you had 5 chances when you killed the guy for the ball and got in your possession but failed to reach the cap point cuz you got owned befor you got got to capture point.Ill say right now if it was a regular capture the flag map the score would of bin 200 to 0 sow win so i would not talk shit.And i dont see any where in sta rules stating that you could not hold ball or how many d cuz it a free for all map.If sta did not want this to happen they should of maid rules for push maps in advanced.And if you want a rematch sow clan is down to do.#sowclan you no where to find me.
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Bomsie
24.205.245.56 |
If SoW can own us because we suck why did you have to hide with the ball? Why not just run up a 200-0 score instead?
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FaZe
207.32.58.195 |
ill talk as much shit as i fucking want, you knew when you did this that it would have repercussions, so you best not talk. if you didn't know then you need to acquire common sense. You be lame to a team they aren't just going to go "Hey Guys good game hope to play you again sometime! You just outplayed us totally", if owning is spamming all your grenades in a choke point killing yourself then doing the same thing repeatedly then yeah you owned us , and we werent aware at that time that the whole scheme of the map had suddenly changed to O vs D. Good luck in gold, you're going to need it.
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Sofaism
66.119.33.170 |
SoW = faggots of the week, congratz
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jimbobillybob
63.231.169.192 |
Theone, dude, ur dumber than ox
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-SoW-TheoNE
68.209.184.241 |
So much crying like i said lets do a rematch if you would like put your skillz where your mouth is son.#sowclan thats where you can find me.Dont be scared.
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jimbobillybob
63.231.169.192 |
lol, im not your son fool.
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Deca-_x
65.92.172.21 |
We rule :P Simply put.
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Deca-_x
65.92.172.21 |
And i'm up for a rematch too if you guys wanna have at it.
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
http://tfc.sta-league.org/5on5/contacts1.html
gfg "omg i'd get kicked if i didn't do what i was told" (obviously not a real quote but basically what you said)
yet on STA's site for Clan info, you're listed as the second leader contact for SoW.. wow.. so the leader would get kicked because he decided to use lame tactics to win a match hence giving the clan itself a bad reputation by those who try to play matches fairly? nice. TheoNE wow.. just wow.. is all i can say.. we never said you held the ball in the respawn.. did you even try to read what we wrote before you replied with stupid ass egotistical comments? You might want to pay more attention in your 8th grade English class too. We all make typos and shit.. but damn.. you're worse than Roller. gg
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
i was actually named that about 3-4 days after becuz i handle tryouts, plz stop tryin to jew me down about one thing, you are basically saying what i am teling you is not the truth, and telling me i'm lying so just drop the issue and just move on, i think thats best
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
I would think it best too if I was you, and made an ass out of myself and my clan.
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oX
68.53.69.183 |
bio just save it plz..i'm tryin to just let things calm down and quit fighting, its almost childish over a stupid game..jeezus
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
then maybe you shouldn't have used childish tactics if you're so mature and we're all so childish for sticking up for ourselves. So how about you do me a favor.. Shut Up about how you're an admin, cause you're not, and realize that you guys did something incredibly stupid. Even if the dispute isn't in our favor, the rules will be changed.. why.. because of idiotic people like you and your clan. Either way.. I'm right, and you're wrong, end of story.
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Sofaism
66.119.33.170 |
I'm Jewish, your comment has offended me oX.
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Blade
67.87.120.128 |
This makes my head hurt.
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BioHazardous
205.243.119.103 |
This kind of reminds me of stupid laws for stupid people. How lawyers have to idiot proof the world because of a few dumb people. Let's take the HOT Coffee thing with McDonalds for example.. you guys are just like that.. something that obviously wasn't intended you went ahead and did anyways because you can't think for youselves. People like you need it spelled out, and even still people will miss interpret things and act like idiots anyways. This is the reason for why the rules for STA read more like a legal agreement than rules for a game. Even when they thought they had it all covered so people wouldn't be retarded, you guys go and find an even dumber thing to do so the rules have to be re-written. gg
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Deca-_x
65.92.172.21 |
BioHaz sure needs a freshly brewed cup of shut-the-fuck-up
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FaZe
207.32.58.195 |
!oh boy! a rematch where you cant hold the ball , oh noes ::gasp::
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jimbobillybob
63.231.169.192 |
Im not missing this one.
Funny, the STA felt your tactics where in-appropriate as well. How about a simple apology and good luck? I suppose thats a little above you folks.
GL in the rematch, I guarantee you dont win by 200-0.
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jimbobillybob
63.231.169.192 |
Im not missing this one.
Funny, the STA felt your tactics where in-appropriate as well. How about a simple apology and good luck? I suppose thats a little above you folks.
GL in the rematch, I guarantee you dont win by 200-0.
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-SoW-ThEoNe
68.209.184.241 |
GL in the match your going to need it.
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FleshRipper
24.247.105.9 |
LewLz!!
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Blade
67.87.120.128 |
I second that notion
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